Tulpa.info - metaphysics

On a functional, experiential basis yes we live in an objectively real world

1:28 AM

But it's all just Life happening (edited)

Also all those experiments where scientists find the brain makes a decision to act before the person is consciously aware of making that decision

1:29 AM

But I feel like I have free will, and I want to continue feeling like I have free well, and the same for my tulpa

Sure. But it's also inherently more complicated as we internally are influencing ourselves all the time. Our thoughts based on outside factors and prior actions cyclically influence other thoughts of ours, etc

Yeah just to reiterate, even this framework says that you will always experience yourself as living in an objectively real world and having free will

1:29 AM

But there can be a deep recognition about how it's just Life happening, an experience inside consciousness

1:30 AM

Thank you for listening P:

1:31 AM

But it's also inherently more complicated as we internally are influencing ourselves all the time. Our thoughts based on outside factors and prior actions cyclically influence other thoughts of ours, etc

oh yeah I mean for sure, the universe is a huge complex uh, thing, everything is interconnected, our thoughts and decisions bring about outcomes which in turn creates new conditioning for ourselves and the people we interact with

1:32 AM

Part of it is to recognize just how complex and non-understandable it is

1:32 AM

We can't really figure out any ultimate truths about how the universe works

1:33 AM

The only important recognition (as relates to peace of mind) is that we're consciousness

1:33 AM

In the waking state, in dreams, consciousness is the only consistent component of the experience

1:34 AM

The only time we're not conscious is in deep sleep or coma or death

1:34 AM

But in the waking state and in dreams, our experience and consciousness are interdependent

1:34 AM

Anyway I'm rambling, as usual, sorry

To what extent does being disassociated count as being conscious?

Hmm

2:02 AM

Hard for me to comment on since I haven't experienced dissociation

2:02 AM

But I mean it would be a component of the conscious experience, right?

2:03 AM

a component of the conscious experience of the body/mind organism I mean, not a component of the "host" person (edited)

2:04 AM

I would say that host, alters, tulpas, even imposed tulpas, are all components of the conscious experience had by the body/mind

2:05 AM

idk words, man, haha

It certainly does not feel particularly conscious, tho since creating Lula I am not sure. She's kind of changed my perception of a number of things. Her and I are still able to communicate fine while disassociated while sort of "watching" the body on autopilot, even though in that state communication with those outside the body is more challenging and feels weird.

Mind you when I say "conscious" I don't mean "in control"

2:08 AM

The body/mind is always on autopilot, even when there is host consciousness or tulpa consciousness present

2:09 AM

But I suppose the body/mind can also experience "no person's" consciousness as we do, say, in meditation

2:11 AM

Yeah I think I like that way of wording it

2:11 AM

The body/mind can experience "impersonal" consciousness, host consciousness, tulpa consciousness, alter consciousness, etc

2:11 AM

@Reguile pls read only that last line and see if you feel like responding to it (edited)

I think it is incorrect to say that you experience consciousness, I feel like experiencing yourself is consciousness.

2:16 AM

The only way for being to have to experiences of consciousness would be if it only perceived part of itself at a time?

Okay right I agree, I mean that's essentially the point I was trying to make earlier :P

2:31 AM

But at the same time we could say that the body/mind "produces" the conscious experience (through the brain, the senses etc)

2:31 AM

Or "creates" to stay in the local terminology (edited)

2:31 AM

The body/mind creates the host (at birth) and the tulpa (later on)

2:32 AM

Yay/nay?

2:34 AM

Like okay I mean I can't hide the fact that this way of phrasing it assumes the equivalence of "consciousness" and "person" lol

2:35 AM

The experience of being the host is the host, the experience of being the tulpa is the tulpa, and the experience arises in consciousness functioning through a body/mind organism

2:36 AM

Anyway sorry this is probably too metaphysical for your preferences haha

That last bit I think I agree with. I think. Assuming I am interpeting you correctly.

Again the description is "non-dual", meaning that it works both ways. The host and tulpa are created by the body/mind organism, and the body/mind organism is a component of the conscious experience had by the host and tulpa.

according to theory on DID, identity doesn't actually form until a few years of age and through trauma it is possible to entirely stop the process of forming a single host identity

2:43 AM

I think that the experience of being the host is the host, but it must also be possible to experience without identity. I suppose that that is what people call "ego death"

Hmm right yeah

2:43 AM

I would call that "impersonal consciousness"

2:44 AM

Or "no person's consciousness"

2:50 AM

But yeah in essence my description would be, conscious host and tulpa created by the body/mind system, which in turn is one aspect of the host's and tulpa's consciousness experience

2:50 AM

I like that, glad I got there after a few hours haha

2:52 AM

Does it sound "metaphysical" to suggest that the host was created in the same way as the tulpa (that is to say, by the body/mind as part of its natural functioning)?

no

Nice haha

2:53 AM

Then I'm well-equipped to present my position outside of this channel in the future :P

but I also don't agree with you since tulpas are created intentionally and hosts are (probably) not

Right, that would be the main difference

2:55 AM

But whether it's intentional IMO is not so important as to see that the host is also created

or rather, someone used effort to make a tulpa, while the host was created without directed effort, to put it more accurately

Yeah

2:57 AM

(Although I'd still argue that tulpa creation is both perceived as intentional by the host, and completely determined by the body/mind's design and conditioning)

2:58 AM

The host feels like they create the tulpa, but in reality both are created in each moment by consciousness functioning through a body/mind system (edited)

3:01 AM

And yet the body/mind system is both host and tulpa

unless tulpas are actually magically separate from the body and just have telepathy that they can't turn off

Right, which no one seems to be arguing

well no, but we are in #metaphysics

Lol yeah people tell me this is the only channel appropriate for discussing the nature of host/tulpa consciousness

Maybe cause you keep capitalizing the word life.

3:05 AM

Hahahahahaha!!

3:05 AM

Laughed out loud at that, fair point

3:06 AM

I might try to adjust that habit lol

3:06 AM

for the sake of credibility

3:08 AM

In other contexts, they call that "Jesus smuggling"

3:09 AM

Implying God by capitalizing Life :P

I don't really agree with how I've seen meta stuff being enforced. I was under the impression that the meta channels were just for discussing meta stuff when you don't want to argue about whether or not the meta stuff is actually real, but that if you do want to try to prove that it is real then it can go where ever, but the way that it seems to be enforced is that if the mods think that it's meta, then it goes in the meta channels regardless of what sort of discussion you are looking for

Yeah, I've been a little bratty in expressing those same feelings :P

3:13 AM

And also to be completely fair the way I started this discussion was by saying "what if past life experiences and entheogenic entities are real" lol

I do feel a little baited and switched, yeah.

in the very beginning in #tulpa-questions you were using the word "metaphisical" quite a few times, which probably tipped Reguile off as well

Lmao Lily sorry

3:19 AM

Ahaha Breloo fair enough

3:20 AM

Although I mainly used it because people told me that's what my questions were about

3:21 AM

Trying to respect the turf :P

3:22 AM

And because I do sort of believe that past life experiences and entheogenic entities are both imagined and "legit"

3:23 AM

Whereas suggesting there's some "legitness" to it is what makes it metaphysical, I guess

3:25 AM

But yeah I'm very easily swayed by experiences like those reported in the book I mentioned above by young children

3:26 AM

Just as unfalsifiable IMO as the reported experience of two people in one body/mind system, and yet we know the latter is real

3:26 AM

Anyway! Enough typing for now haha, thanks everyone for indulging me

Anyone here who's had experiences with ghosts hmu

10:11 PM

(I have not, I just want to hear your story)

10:11 PM

(DM if more comfortable)

My ghost army! MWAH-HA!

12:11 AM

Lily doesn't believe in ghosts

what kind of ghost?

Let's say any non-physical entity

i've had some experience

@Xe Feel free to talk about it either here or DM me

Love to hear stories about that

Does it count as Lily having a ghost experience if she doesn't see it as a ghost experience?

Absolutely!

Well then she's had a ghost experience.

leans in * but you didn't hear that from me.

Tell me all about it!